they spent billions of dollars on that, and another thing this study shows, that doesn't work. but, man, the past four years when it seems everybody's focus has turned to education reform in a big way, have just been disastrous, not disastrous but been terrible. our students are getting worse and worse. >> well, this is a trajectory we've seen for more than a decade, so it goes back and maybe you say, well, we'll get the reforms of the last few years some time to set until. but the reaction to the study was amazing to me. you had all these special interest groups across the board saying it's not our fault, not our fault. it's not the fact we're teaching the wrong way or holding teachers accountable through test scores. nobody wants to say, hey, there's a problem there, let's do something about it. everybody still, even when a big national crisis like this comes up, everyone goes into their bunkers and protects their own interests. we don't need that point of view. we need a point of view that says, wow, we've got a problem here. >> we need to dive in, all in. julie pace, race to the top, doesn't seem like they're going in the right direction.